In a first section, I highlight a number of ambiguities in Nephi's words that have not been sufficiently noted. I served on the Seminary Council and one of my assignments was to speak in Sacrament Meeting. To walk after the flesh; to live after the flesh. 2 Nephi 31:5-12. Some of the ways they try to explain away its clear message can only be described as bizarre. Exaltation only occurs when a person has “obedience to gospel law.” According to Nephi, are we saved by grace or by works? 1. When it comes to support of “preposition of time,” the second definition seems to fit. Cited in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, p. 186). The Savior’s blood, His atonement, will save us, but only after we have done all we can to save ourselves by keeping His commandments” (Harold B. Lee, Address at MIA Conference, 17 June 1966. A-A; A+; 2 Ne 22 though thou wast angry with me thine anger is turned away. 2 Nephi 23:19-23 Babylon . But all of these blessings are ours on one condition, and this is spoken of by Nephi, when he said: ‘For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ (2 Nephi 25:23.) “We are saved by grace according to all we can do”—even if this fit, it still would contradict Robinson’s interpretation. wet. It is a fabulous sermon. 2 Nephi 25:2 Nephi admits that he has avoided teaching his people many things about the life among the Jews in Jerusalem – because of the wicked lifestyle of that culture. He further explains the future of the Jews as well as the restoration of the gospel in the last days. At first glance this passage seems to agree with 2 Nephi 25:23, but one of the basic principles of biblical hermeneutics (the interpretation of scripture) is that scripture within the Bible (and in LDS theology and scriptures, if it is true) cannot contradict itself. But in order for these supreme blessings to be effective in our lives, we should first do our part, ‘for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ Let us with faith, enthusiasm, dedication, responsibility, and love do all that is within our reach, and we will be doing all that is possible to achieve the impossible—that is, to achieve what for the human mind is impossible but with the divine intervention of our loving Father and the infinite sacrifice brought about by our Savior becomes the greatest gift, the most glorious of realities, to live forever with God and with our families” (“Attempting the Impossible,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2009, p. 34). You must keep the laws and ordinances of Christ. The phrases “the manner of the Jews” is the same in John 19:40 and, “works of darkness” is same in Romans 13:12 . Thoughts? In my opinion, Verse 23 is best read in light of the entire chapter rather than quoted by itself in isolation. If the verse said “…we are saved by grace EVEN AFTER all we can do,” we’d have something to talk about. Doesn’t the book of James say that “faith without works is dead”? My daughter Carissa has a master’s degree in English. May 4, 2020 23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. @Deadworm, I thank you for your words and presence on this forum. One leader who did not mince his words was the eleventh president of the church, Harold B. Lee. 2 Nephi 25:30. I’m here to share my Note Sheet and Scripture Signs for 2 Nephi 11-25. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. In that distinction the beauty and glory of the Atonement, the balanced claims of justice and mercy shine forth as no where else, even in holy writ, — much less in the uninspired writings of men. Another general authority, Seventy Theodore M. Burton, cited 2 Nephi 25:23 and explained. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. 25:23 it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do . Reading the Book of Mormon Gospel Doctrine Lesson 9 reminded me of a talk I gave back when I was in high school. !” I asked if he could recite it for me and he had trouble. All the pain and travail of previous generations will be turned to joy. In other words, each must do all he can to save himself form sin; then he may lay claim to the blessings of redemption by the Holy One of Israel, that all mankind may be saved by obedience to the law and ordinances of the gospel. Adam Fell: (2 Nephi 26:11) 5. Grace is not merely a decorative touch or a finishing bit of trim to top off our own efforts—it is God’s participation in the process of our salvation from its beginning to … Annotation for 2 Ne 25:23-30 above 30 And, inasmuch as it shall be expedient, ye must keep the performances and ordinances of God until the law shall be fulfilled which was given unto Moses. The question we must ask is what did Joseph Smith, the “translator” of the Book of Mormon, mean when he wrote the word “after” in this verse? Father Lehi the heavens open and “he saw One descending out of the midst of heaven, and he beheld that his luster was above that of the sun at noon-day” (1 Nephi 1:9). 2 Nephi 25:23 in the Book of Mormon states: “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” Many Mormons say this verse doesn’t teach that salvation is based on grace and works. I recently asked an Evangelical, “how is one saved?” he replied, “through grace.” When I inquired what that meant, he further explained that when you accept Christ and repent, you are saved by grace. By his grace, we live and breathe. Ellipsis in original). “Believe in Christ and to Be Reconciled to God”, “For We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved”, “We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved”, It is by Grace That We Are Saved, After All We Can Do, “For We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”, “It Is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”, “It is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”. . . For the other five definitions, let’s see how that might work for 2 Nephi 25:23: No example can be found in the 1828 dictionary to support the idea that “after” could mean “apart from all we can do,” “all we can do notwithstanding,” “regardless of all we can do,” or “in spite of all we can do.” Thus, it is highly unlikely that any reader in Smith’s day could have understood this verse to mean anything other than a person is saved by grace after (“later in time”) all they can do. The way too simple / easy and represents Jesus Christ. Thoughts? Imagine you are an Israelite living during the time of Moses and the poisonous snakes. Nephi’s statement “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23) has been the source of much discussion among Latter-day Saints. In a first section, I highlight a number of ambiguities in Nephi's words that have not been sufficiently noted. I was unaware that the church newsroom had doctrinal tidbits in there (thanks CV75 for pointing in that direction) and as I was browsing I came upon the entry for Grace. Romans 8:1. See quote from President Ezra Taft Benson, Institute Manual, 94. His explanation includes prophecies about his own posterity that will be fulfilled when Jesus appears to the Nephites in the book of 3 Nephi. In this paper, I offer a theological interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23 that is distinct from any other in the relevant literature. After we have done all that we can do, after we have denied ourselves of ungodliness and worldly lusts, then is the grace of God sufficient for us; then we are sanctified in Christ and eventually made perfect in Christ (see 2 Nephi 25:23; Moroni 10:32) (Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert L. Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon 2:258). That was also the spirit of Paul’s message: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). To inquire after is to seek by asking; to ask concerning. My intention is to provide a three-pronged approach to interpreting the passage. Read the verses* 300. “When you think about it, there is so much promised in the gospel for so little required on our part. Keep the commandments of God or perish. That [is] the pure doctrine of the scriptures” (Harold  B. Lee, “Viewpoint of a Giant,” Summer School Devotional Address, Department of Seminaries and Institutes of Religion, Brigham Young University, July 18, 1968. After all, the Bible teaches that there is nothing a person can do to earn God’s favor, no matter how much effort is exerted. Ye shall not go after other Gods. . ☼ For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. 2 Nephi 31:17-21. (2 Nephi 25:23, 26) There is no other way to be saved than through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. 2 Nephi Chapter 25 « Previous Next » ... 2 Ne 25:23-30 . Such a stand, while sounding “almost biblical,” is still in opposition to both Ephesians 2:8-9 that was conveniently cited as well as interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23 given by the missionary. Regardless of the opinion given by Robinson, there are two important reasons why “after all we can do” should be understood as a preposition of time. In this paper, I offer a theological interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23 that is distinct from any other in the relevant literature. Perhaps he means “preposition of contrast/concession,” which includes words like “in spite of” and “despite.” An example of a preposition of separation would be “from” or “off.” I don’t think that’s what he really means. According to Reynolds and Sjodahl, Babylon was one of the great cities of the ancient world, perhaps the greatest. 2 Nephi 25:23 after all we can do “At first glance at this scripture (2 Ne 25:23), we might think that grace is offered to us only chronologically after we have completed doing all we can do, but this is demonstrably false, for we have already received many manifestations of God’s grace before we even come to this point. (25) 2 Nephi 25:23 – A comment. In my opinion, Verse 23 is best read in light of the entire chapter rather than quoted by itself in isolation. “The simple essence of all you need to know about the Atonement is to be found in the teachings of the great prophet Nephi when he said, ‘We labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). While Robinson and other Latter-day Saints might like the idea that they are “saved by grace” “in spite of” all they can do, this has not been the view of LDS leaders throughout the history of the church. According to Nephi, what do we need in order to understand the words of Isaiah? “After all we can do” includes extending our best effort. It is not. The true value of the sacrifice of Christ means much more than this general salvation which comes to all mankind. Thus works alone cannot save us; grace is an absolute prerequisite. In 2 Nephi 25, Nephi prophesies of the fate of the Jews-their rejection of the Savior, their scatterings and scourgings, and their eventual repentance. LDS 2 Nephi 25:23 Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Hammster, Aug 2, 2016. Roberts of the Seventy (1857-1933) explained how the unconditional nature of the Atonement in regard to Adam’s transgression and its conditional nature regarding men’s personal sins is a doctrine ‘peculiar to ‘Mormonism’…and is derived almost wholly from the teachings of the Book of Mormon. No matter how hard we work, how diligently we serve, or how righteously we live, we will never deserve more than we receive (p. 311). For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.2 … James Faust, who served as a member of the First Presidency, was also quite clear in his interpretation of the phrase when he told a General Conference audience. “We are saved by grace behind in place after all we can do”—this doesn’t fit. To request a free subscription, please visit here. Consider the other citations where Lee referenced this verse: “‘For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ (2 Nephi 25:23.) Isaiah 11:3. 1 Samuel 24:8. Note: The following was originally printed in the November/December 2018 edition of Mormonism Researched. I’m here to share my Note Sheet and Scripture Signs for 2 Nephi 11-25. And behold, in thy childhood thou hast suffered afflictions and much sorrow, because of the rudeness of thy brethren. Nephi glories in plainness—Isaiah’s prophecies will be understood in the last days—The Jews will return from Babylon, crucify the Messiah, and be scattered and scourged—They will be restored when they believe in the Messiah—He will first come six hundred years after Lehi left Jerusalem—The Nephites keep the law of Moses and believe in Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel. At a recent church meeting where I spoke about The Miracle of Forgiveness evangelistic approach described in a chapter found in Sharing the Good News with Mormons (Kregel, 2018), two young male LDS missionaries approached my table and we began to talk. What is meant by “after all we can do”? The Millenial day, then, becomes a day of song and praise to the great Jehovah-he who gave the law-he who would come and dwell in the midst of his people. (2 Nephi 25:23) 4. 2 Nephi 25:23-26. “ULTIMATE SALVATION COMES TO THOSE WHO OBEY. However, 2 Nephi 25:23 offers no support for the belief that a person is saved by grace “in spite of” one’s maximum effort. Baptism the gate to the strait and narrow path. 2 Nephi 23:19-23 Babylon . After quoting thirteen consecutive chapters of Isaiah's writings in 2 Nephi 12-24 (Isaiah 2-14), Nephi begins to prophesy "in plainness." [Arthur A. Bailey, "What Modern Revelation Teaches About Adam," in The Ensign, January 1998, pp. Ellipsis in original). Nephi tries to convince people to believe in God and be saved by his grace. 2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. 25:232 Nephi 25:23 would be that we are ultimately saved by grace apart from whatever we manage to do. The sense is that apart from all we can do, it is ultimately by the grace of Christ that we are saved. Second Nephi 25:23 continues to emphasize the necessity of obedience to the commandments of God for a person to obtain exaltation and godhood. 2 Nephi 22. Many Christians claim Mormons are not Christian and claim part of the reason for this is that Mormons believe they are saved because of their works. We are saved by grace “apart from all we can do,” or “all we can do notwithstanding,” or even “regardless of all we can do.” Another acceptable paraphrase of the sense of the verse might read, “We are still saved by grace, after all is said and done” (pp. 25:23 at the end. This additional salvation is an individual salvation and is conditioned not only upon grace, but also upon obedience to gospel law (“Salvation and Exaltation,” Ensign, July 1972, p. 78). Cited in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, pp. Posts Tagged ‘2 Nephi 25:23 vs. Ephesians 2:8-9’ Mormon Dilemma 154. And what is "all that we can do?" In addition to his overview of the subject, the sermon he linked talks extensively about the verse, and the LDS understanding of grace, works, and power of God. Although he now echoes Robinson’s interpretation, BYU professor Robert L. Millet previously had coauthored a Book of Mormon commentary where he had explained in 1992. Hey Friends! BYU Professor Stephen Robinson explained, “At first glance at this scripture, we might think that grace is offered to us only chronologically after we have completed doing all we can do, but this is demonstrably false.” Tag: 2 Nephi 25:23 After “all” the Bishop Could Do, it Wasn’t Enough. All the pain and travail of previous generations will be turned to joy. 2 Nephi 30:1-2. Notice that there is no understanding of “in spite of” all a person could do in this interpretation. 1 And now, Jacob, I speak unto you: Thou art my a firstborn in the days of my tribulation in the wilderness. for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). . Much has been made of verse 23, and what the precise wording of “after all we can do” means. Except for the atoning power, the redeeming power, of the Master, redeeming the world from the Fall, bringing us back into relationship with one of the Godhead, the Holy Ghost—were it not for His sacrifice for us, none of us would be worthy to enter in His presence, except we were bathed in His blood through repentance of all our sins and our faithfulness to the end (see 3 Nephi 27:19). Certainly there have been leaders who have minimized the works, such as former general authority Tad R. Callister, who cited the verse and then wrote the following in his popular book The Infinite Atonement: In other words, we contribute to our salvation, but we do not earn it. Exaltation only occurs when a person has “obedience to gospel law.”. The name Jacob is explained as "supplanter" in the King James Bible of Genesis 27:36 (compare Genesis 25:23-26), but could just as easily be read "successor" or "replacement," since Jacob replaced Esau as firstborn and received the birthright and the blessing (see Genesis 25:29-34; 27:22-40). 2 Nephi 25:23-30 The Purpose of the Law of Moses. Nephi explains how in 2 Nephi 25-26. I explained how I enjoy giving away 12th President Spencer Kimball’s book to Latter-day Saints walking to events sponsored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including General Conference sessions, temple open house events, and BYU football games. It is ironic that 2 Nephi 25:23 has often been used as ammunition by “grace only” believers who feel that the Book of Mormon somehow lessens or denies grace because it requires followers to do all the works they can do before grace can save. Taken at face value, the idea that believers are saved by grace “in spite of all we can do” seems to be biblical. Callister’s explanation correlates with the traditional interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23, which is works are definitely needed and salvation does not come by grace alone. I love 2 Nephi 25:23- 'That it is by Grace that we are saved'- such a great lesson for this week! The scriptures make it clear that while a resurrection will come to all, only those who obey the Christ will receive the expanded blessing of eternal salvation” (Harold B. Lee, “To Ease the Aching Heart,” Ensign, April 1973, p. 5. In pursuit of, that is, moving behind, following; in search of. “After all we can do” includes loving our fellowmen and praying for those who regard us as their adversary. We tend to focus on the last phrase “after all we can do” as the important part of this verse. To judge after the sight of the eye. Real repentance, real change may … 20-27 2 Nephi 2:24 All Things Have Been Done in the Wisdom of Him Who Knoweth All Things. Read v. 20 . Behind in place; as, men placed in a line one after another. (2 Nephi 25:17) 3. “Thus, the correct sense of ”2 Ne. (Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places: Selected Sermons and Writings of President Harold B. Lee, pp. 17-18. All of the principles of the gospel are principles of promise by which the plans of the Almighty are unfolded to us” “All we have to do in order to be prepared to enter the presence of the Lord is to forsake our sins, come unto Him, call on His name, obey His voice, and keep His commandments; then we shall be able to see His face and to know that He is” (Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places: Selected Sermons and Writings of President Harold B. Lee, p. 246) See also Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee, p. 24). We cannot be saved by grace alone, “for we know that it is by grace that we are saved after all we can do” (Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2001, p. 18). I showed her the argument made by Robinson and asked for her opinion. For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. Surely the Lord smiles upon one who desires to come to judgment worthily, who resolutely labors day by day to replace weakness with strength. In the Old and New Testaments most of the people of Israel failed to understand and properly observe the law of Moses, which had been given to help them learn about Christ and come unto Him. And I agree with the same conclusion. He is right, being saved from sin requires two things, accepting Christ (faith) and repenting of one’s sins. . 2 Nephi 2:19 Adam and Eve (Illustration): Chart: A Latter-Day Saint View of Adam. He cites from Ephesians that salvation is a “gift of God: not of works,” yet he still says “we will never deserve more than we receive.” Works “alone” can’t save us, he says, as “grace is an absolute prerequisite.” So, in other words, it is not by grace alone but grace and works (“saved by grace after all we can do”). There is an additional salvation that God has planned for his children. Furthermore, we are invited to ‘come unto Christ, and be perfected in him.’ When we deny ourselves ‘of all ungodliness,’ then and only ‘then is his grace sufficient’ for us (Moroni 10:32)” (“Plain and Precious Truths Restored,” Ensign, October 2006, p. 53. “We are saved by grace in pursuit of all we can do”—this doesn’t fit. « Previous 2 Nephi 25 Next » The Lord will bless us to the degree to which we keep His commandments. Before citing 2 Nephi 25:23, Lee explained, “But all of these blessings are ours on one condition, and this is spoken of by Nephi” (Conference Reports, April 1956, p. 111). I was interested in (and happy with) their use of 2 Ne. It denotes logical separateness rather than temporal sequence. 2 NEPHI 25:21 – 26:11 MESSAGE TO THE CHILRDEN OF LEHI 25:22 the nations who shall possess them shall be judged . Two theological interpretations, one traditional and one revisionist, are widespread. Later in time; as, after supper. Esau was unfit to serve as firstborn. Shall Be As When God Overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah: In 2 Nephi 23:19-22 we find a prophecy of the destruction of Babylon. I told him that the verse actually says “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” “Well,” he quickly responded, “in the passage’s context, the word after really means in spite of.” He added that his mission president agreed with this interpretation. He cites 2 Nephi 25:23 as support for his assessment, but also 1 Nephi 13:40, in which the angel who asks Nephi, “Knowest thou the condescension of God?” (1 Nephi 11:16), repudiates the notion of a shared responsibility for salvation. "All that we could do [was to] repent of all our sins Its walls were, for height and width, one of the wonders of the world. Much has been made of verse 23, and what the precise wording of “after all we can do” means. Confusing words. According to Reynolds and Sjodahl, Babylon was one of the great cities of the ancient world, perhaps the greatest. LDS 2 Nephi 25:23 Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Hammster, Aug 2, 2016. It may be regarded as the ‘Mormon’ contribution to views of the Atonement of Christ, for it is to be found no where else except in Mormon literature.’ The perfect relationship between the atoning grace of Christ and the obedient efforts of mankind is powerfully stated by Nephi: ‘We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). I love 2 Nephi 25:23- 'That it is by Grace that we are saved'- such a great lesson for this week! In a later general conference talk, Lee also said, “Truly we are redeemed by the atoning blood of the Savior of the world, but only after each has done all he can to work out his own salvation” (Conference Reports, October 1970, p. 116). 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